Host: Today I’m sitting down with Pat Taggart. How are you doing today?

Pat Taggart: I am good, thank you for having me. This is exciting.

Host: I’m excited for today, too. It’s been a minute since we’ve talked about video specifically on our podcast, so I think we’re overdue to have this conversation. Pat, you are the owner, founder, CEO, and wearer of multiple hats at SkyBlue Creative. How did you get started with video storytelling and what inspired you to focus on the nonprofit space?

Pat Taggart: My dream was to be a broadcaster, so I went to school to become a sports broadcaster. I was myopically focused on that. When I got out, I landed a job as a high school sports reporter on a local cable television station. I thought I’d made it, but four months in, I got a call saying the show had been canceled and wishing me good luck.

I was 22 years old, with no real prospects and only $5,000 in the bank. So, I said to my mom and dad — who I still lived with — I’m going to go buy some video equipment. Then I’m going to jump on the other side of the camera because I don’t think on-camera broadcasting is right for me. I bought equipment, started a wedding video business, and very quickly realized that nobody gets married during the week. So, the obvious solution was to switch to creating video for organizations.

I went out to different organizations and met really smart, inspiring people. Then we recorded. That’s when everything fell apart. I wound up with footage in which people appeared to be deeply uncomfortable, rather than engaging videos. Nobody wanted to watch them or share them. We were making corporate videos then. That led me to consider how we could make those videos more compelling so that I could eventually make money and be employable.

It really came down to two things: stop scripting people — because for any size organization, whether it’s for-profit or nonprofit — the story already exists. I learned to stop trying to create a story. Just talk to the people who have already created that story and continue to create it every day.

Then, whenever possible, stop asking people to stare into the camera lens. That scares most people. Those two very subtle but critically important changes helped dictate the work we’ve done for over twenty years.

Host: Wow, so many things to dive into based on the anecdote you’ve shared. Working in content creation we’ve seen an explosion of people becoming interested in recording video. Perhaps ten or fifteen years ago, some of those creators were bloggers; now they’re vloggers. In watching that shift we’ve learned how incredibly engaging video is. It’s amazing how many people will sit and watch someone go shopping at Target, just to see what they buy. It’s astounding to me. They notice someone’s style and decide they’d like to watch more of their videos.

That ties into nonprofits, as you mentioned. I’ve experienced this as well. One of my first marketing projects was hosting a video webinar. Everyone sat at a table, staring at the camera, stumbling over their words, and forgetting their talking points. The IT person who worked with me called it a train wreck.

I share that story to show how people overthink recording videos. To your point, I believe what people want from video is authenticity. There’s a fine line between not being prepared, not having a plan and being so locked in that you make people uncomfortable. Then it’s not compelling to watch.

Pat Taggart: You touched on something really important. Unscripted does not mean unprepared. Often we’ll go out to film clients. In the process we’ll talk to between two and ten people from their team. Inevitably, 90% of them are surprised to find that they don’t need to plan anything. They’re shocked when we ask them to come in and just sit in a chair.

But if you were going to talk to prospective donors or people you can help or people you’d like to recruit to work with you, you’d never write a script for that conversation. Video seems to be the only time that we consider scripting ourselves. Why is that?

Consider the times that you don’t script yourself for an important conversation; it’s live. A meeting is live, for example. We can’t do it ten times, we can do it once. A phone call is live, too. Video is not live, so there’s a massive margin for error. Whereas, if you record something ten times, ultimately, the world is only going to see the version that you’re happy with. Yet we script ourselves. We put ourselves into a box. We think we’re helping, but scripts are so unnatural by their nature. Of course we seem stiff and look uncomfortable — all the things we don’t want people to think we are.

So, being prepared means thinking about the outcomes we’re trying to create. If I have a nonprofit organization and I want to create a video to talk about our impact and I want to make sure we include a couple of great stories, that’s perfect. That’s all we really need to know.

In sitting down with your team, we’re going to talk about those specific things. We shoot a lot of footage when we work with clients. The onus is on us to review what we shot and find structure. That’s not the company’s responsibility. As an organization, every second that you spend planning your video is time spent doing a disservice to yourself. It’s counterproductive. And it’s counterintuitive to think about it like that, but it’s true.

Don’t plan at all, just understand the outcomes you want to create and let creative people go.

Host: Several times you’ve brought up the dangers of using a script — people reading into the camera and sounding unnatural. They actually have to think about how they’d say something naturally.

Authenticity is so important in the nonprofit space. But it’s easy to mess up. Let’s talk more about that. Why is authenticity so important, especially in video storytelling in the nonprofit space?

Pat Taggart: In the nonprofit space you’re really trying to make a human connection, and often you’re trying to reach people deeply. Your work is likely emotional. You are making a positive difference in someone’s life. So, the power is actually already in that story. If you want to get even more granular, the greater power is in how that person who receives help speaks about their experience.

So when you tell them what to say or you choose to tell their story yourself using a script, you effectively rip the heart out of their story. I understand that some nonprofit groups will feel that while they are doing great work for others, they would never ask the people they help to be in a video. They don’t believe they can ask them to do that because they believe that would be uncomfortable and manipulative.

But I’ve seen many times where all you have to do is ask. If you are really making an impact and have really helped people, those folks want to give back, They want an opportunity to return that favor. That’s what good people do. If someone is a good person and someone else helps them, it may not be in-kind assistance, but at some point they’re going to think about how they can give back. If there’s ever an opportunity for me to help, then they want to help, too.

So if you approach people — without pressure — and share that you’d love to be able to help more people like them, then you can ask if they’d be willing to tell the story of what your work has meant for them. You’d be surprised — almost everyone will say yes. And they will say yes more easily if you tell them there’s nothing to prepare, it’s just an easy conversation.

Host: I love that. As you were talking you helped me to recall trying to film stories with my iPhone for the company. It’s interesting to watch how even when you assure people that the footage will be edited and they don’t need to prepare anything, as soon as that camera is turned on they stiffen up and stare into it like a deer in the headlights. I’m sure that happens all the time when you work with people. How do you help ease them out of any initial fear when they see the red camera light blinking?

Pat Taggart: I’m going to share some of my tricks today. First, did you ask them to look into the camera when you were filming or did you have them looking off-camera?

Host: They were looking into the camera.

Pat Taggart: So that’s the first thing. Looking into the camera automatically makes them see you as a newsperson. It’s very uncomfortable for them to stare into that little circle. Looking off-camera, documentary-style, does wonders to put people at ease. The camera is off to the side and they’re talking to a live person. That’s far more natural, it’s what we do in everyday life. That’s number one.

Second, because it is unscripted, our job isn’t to create a story. Our main job is to make people comfortable talking about their story. So smile at them, create some conversation before you begin. Also, don’t tell them that you’ve started. I never tell anyone that we’re going to start or when I’m going to hit record. No, you just want cameras to roll. Typically, my cameras are rolling before I even sit. So you get into a conversation with them. Eventually, they realize that you’ve been filming — you’ve already started. There’s no need to call for action or prompt them, that’s unnecessary.

Another secret I’ll share is that after about two questions, I always tell everyone that they’re doing great and they’re really good at it. I also ask them if they do a lot of video recording because it seems like they do. Now, they may not be doing as well as we’d like but it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you tell someone they’re doing a good job, you can see them relax. They exhale, relax their shoulders a little. They stop worrying that they may not be doing well. They feel more confident that they are doing well and can relax a bit. Everyone just wants to do well.

My role is sort of more like a shrink than anything. I try to give people what they need and calm them down, help them to be their true selves. It’s not about trying to ask the most hard-hitting, pressing questions. The questions are obvious. In talking to a nonprofit that does wonderful work, the questions are about what prompted them to get into this space. Tell me about your organization. Tell me your favorite story, the one you share with friends, the one in which you feel the impact you make is most visible or vibrant. Everything comes from there.

So to the interviewer I say don’t look at yourself as an interviewer. Look at yourself as someone conducting a conversation and giving the same energy you want in return.

Host: I’ve definitely noticed that trend. Right now, you and I are looking at each other and it can be a little nerve-wracking, even when you feel comfortable with someone. Even in our world of [virtual] Zoom, one trick I’ve used when I’m in a meeting where I’m presenting is to have what I’m talking about in front of the Zoom meeting so I can’t see myself or anyone else.

So even though my camera is on and I know they can see my face, I don’t actually want to be able to register that. Instead, I want to focus on what I’m talking about. Sometimes I’ll even put my questions over the full screen so I can focus on the conversation. As you said, just staring at that camera and feeling like you’ve got another eyeball staring back at you can feel really unnerving.

Pat Taggart: Another thing to recognize is that everyone is self-conscious, even someone you might look at and think is perfect. I’m sure that person has a million insecurities. So, the biggest barrier to people creating video for their organization isn’t that they don’t know what to say or how to edit. It’s that they — or their team — doesn’t want to get in front of the camera because they don’t like the way they look or sound.

Here’s the truth. Your content is not for you. It’s for your audience. When you say I don’t like the size of my head or the pitch of my voice, no one other than you is paying attention to those things. The very simple fix is to create the content and leave it to work as you intended.

It’s not for you. But it can do a lot of good if you put it out in the world and let it do the work you intended.

Host: A lot of nonprofits struggle to have a library of images — their own photography and video they can use in communications. They often think they need to go out and hire a professional photographer. I think they should for certain things. I know you are a professional photographer and videographer.

There are times when having professional photography and videography is really valuable, but there’s also value in having more candid images — selfies or quick images taken on an iPhone. Day-to-day life happens at a nonprofit whether it’s a foodbank or animal rescue or some other group. What would you recommend to a nonprofit that is trying to generate more of its own content to show up authentically in their communications? And how do we navigate between candid and more professional imagery?

Pat Taggart: You make a great point. People wonder how they can create something really good using nothing more than their cell phone. I have a camera that I paid $7,000 for about ten years ago. That camera is now obsolete. Your cell phone is probably five times better. While that makes me sad, I think it’s also incredibly cool for anyone who’s listening. It’s no longer a valid excuse to say all you have is your cell phone. Your cell phone is fantastic.

And if you spend a little less than a hundred dollars on accessories like a tripod, ring light and microphone that interfaces with your camera, then you take video to another level, again, getting production value that I would have struggled to get with that camera. So you already have equipment you can use.

Yes, there are times to consider engaging a professional filmmaker. Absolutely. We typically focus on creating evergreen content for clients. If you want an organization identity video or a brand identity video to feature prominently on your website and social channels, one that tells people who you are, what you do and why, that’s a great way to work with a filmmaker. If you want to create a couple of high-touch case studies to super-charge your donation drive, that’s a filmmaker is also a great idea because the storytelling element calls for a type of talent that goes beyond the equipment. It’s about who really knows how to tell a story to hit the right emotions.

But day-to-day, there’s so much you can do on your own. It doesn’t have to be perfect. People aren’t looking for perfection. We’re all now very accustomed to consuming content on social media that’s far from perfect.

My children don’t watch television, they only watch YouTube. There are a lot more people like them than there are people like my wife and me, who still watch TV. So what are they watching? They’re watching all homegrown videos. And that is what everyone growing up now used to as well. Moving forward, audiences will consist of people who are more and more accustomed to homegrown content. So, don’t worry about being perfect.

I’ll give you an example of something your organization can create today for free with the phone you have in your pocket. It’s a video FAQ catalog. It’s the most valuable tool on my website. Why is that? It’s because people come to our website, skybluecreative.com, to figure out if we’re the right fit for them as filmmakers. They look through the site and end up on the video FAQ page, then they watch those videos. Sure, we could have put up text FAQs, of course. But this takes things to a higher level by providing a face and an identity to go along with the generic skybluecreations.com URL. Now, there’s a human being there. People really do buy from people. So they can get answers from me, conversationally to a lot of the things they were already wondering.

It’s wonderful for them because they can get an idea right away of whether we’d be the right fit. It’s also really wonderful for us because we are not having conversations with people who would never have been a good fit for us or we for them.

So, create content for your organization that gives people the information they’re looking for so you’re not wasting their time or your internal resources. Make a list of the six to ten questions you commonly hear. Whether you have just one person on your team or split it up — which is a great way to expose lots of different people if you have a team. Just let them answer the question in a really conversational way. Again, it doesn’t need to be perfect. It just has to be human and authentic. That can be done for absolutely nothing.

Host: Before this podcast, you shared a great story about a video you created for a company with a fund people could contribute extra money to — would you tell that story?

Pat Taggart: Yes, thank you. In the story you reference, there was a company called Stericycle — they’re in the waste industry — that started a really wonderful program called the Employee Hardship Fund. Every pay period thousands of employees could donate one dollar or some other amount of their paycheck to the fund. Then team members from across the organization who might have endured some hardship — house fires, debilitating illness — could apply for help from the fund to mitigate some of the costs of what they were going through. Medical expenses or lost wage because they had to take time off from work, for example, could qualify people for a hardship grant. A beautiful program but nobody was donating.

Why weren’t they donating? They company sent out emails and people knew the fund existed but they couldn’t feel it. They knew about it but they weren’t engaged. So we went to a few people who’d received an employee hardship grant. We went to them and explained that donations were slow and it would be helpful if we could tell more people about the program. We asked if they’d be willing to share their story. The first two people on their list to be asked said yes immediately. They said the fund was a lifeline for them. All we did was set up some equipment. The people stood across from me and told their story, that was it.

We released the video and overnight, program participation quadrupled. So that fund quadrupled overnight. Why, because people could feel it now. It was no longer just a concept, an abstract program. Now, people who wanted to help could put faces to the fund. Now they could feel excited about giving; these were their coworkers. Something horrible had happened to them and this program was able to help them. They wanted to help people like that.

If you want to move the needle, you have to connect in a visceral way. Video is beautiful for that. Storytelling is a beautiful medium for that. But the real power lies with the people you’re helping. It’s one thing for you to talk about the great work you’re doing. It’s totally different to hear about it from the people who are being helped.

Host: I loved that story when you shared it on our pre-call so I wanted to make sure our listeners got to hear it, too. Thank you.

Earlier in our conversation you spoke of a concern some nonprofits may have that featuring video case studies or video stories from some of our beneficiaries is exploitative. Or that doing so creates an unhealthy power dynamic.

When you encounter that concern, what are some helpful tips you offer to ensure we all remain mindful of every person’s individual dignity? And what are some ways you would guide that type of video case study to support people who may be experiencing hard times?

Pat Taggart: I think those are two really great questions. To the first one, is all you have to do is ask. Do so privately, rather than in front of a group. Make it very clear to the people you ask that they are not obligated in any way — it’s not a type of payback. And most importantly, share the reason you want to create the videos — to help more people like them. Let them know that you just want to help more people who are also in this situation and you think sharing your story would allow us to do that.

Then there’s a clear purpose to them helping. And those folks that have been helped probably want to see more people helped when they need it.

As for orchestrating the testimony or case study, I think it’s really important to end on a positive note. So for the folks we talked with, yes, we had to paint the picture of some really terrible things that happened to them. One was a house fire where they lost everything. The second was cancer, a really tough cancer battle that developed unexpectedly at a young age. But thanks in part to these grants taking some stress away — and obviously there were other things at play as well — but thanks to this program they could focus on healing without being so overwhelmed by the financial burden that came along with it.

Then we made sure the videos show them on the other side. The person who survived a fire had a great new apartment. She talked about how much she loves it and how grateful she is. The man who battled cancer is in good health. He’s back at work and getting to spend time with his family. So the videos made you feel good. They were hopeful.

I think that sometimes if you focus only on fear and doom and gloom, video testimony can feel a lot more exploitative. And you want to show the people sharing their stories as more than victims. You want to show the full 360 story, along with the turnaround and the role the organization played in that turnaround.

Host: I was watching a news recap on YouTube and watched as a news station visited a food bank during Thanksgiving. It was really fascinating. They featured a few people at the food bank talking about how the cost of living crisis over the last few years has led to not only more people in need of their services, but also a wider variety of people. I’ll never forget one older woman who was sharing her story. She seemed to be an employed professional and she was at the food bank to pick up a box of Thanksgiving supplies because the cost of food is creating a hardship for her.

Other people were walking out with shopping carts of food. The report broke down a lot of misconceptions around who goes to food banks. Some people who have never experienced need themselves may have misconceptions about the people a nonprofit is helping.

So, again, building the case for video as a very powerful medium for showcasing the variety of people your nonprofit serves.

Pat Taggart: Yes, if you can educate and pull the curtains back on something that people know exists but don’t know much about, that’s a wonderful thing. Whether it’s due to how we were raised or educated or because we haven’t been exposed to different challenges, we have our own preconceived notions. That’s not evil, it’s just human nature.

I think there are great opportunities for organizations to educate. You can educate people and you can also make them feel something. And you can turn them into advocates — if you do it right. It all comes down to being able to tell a story.

Host: Absolutely. I think that’s a great place for us to wrap up today. I love that you shared the pain of purchasing this expensive camera that’s now obsolete because the cell phones we have in our pockets have surpassed that technology. Following that theme, where do you see the future of video going, specifically how can nonprofit and for-profit companies leverage it in their communications?

Pat Taggart: I have zero animosity about cell phones, they’re wonderful. I should have sold that camera a lot earlier, I waited too long and now I can’t. But I think cell phone technology is awesome. cell phones give everyone the power to create great content. Before, there was such a barrier to great production value. The concern people have about being able to produce something that looks good on their own — that’s gone. It’s beautiful that it now all comes down to storytelling. If you’re a tiny organization with a great story to tell you’ll get more attention than a big organization that doesn’t. As your company grows bigger, there’s often a tendency to stop talking about when you were small. But people love underdog stories, too.

“We’re the biggest” doesn’t cut it — where’s the humanity in that? My advice is don’t be afraid to just hit the record button and see where things go. Just make sure you’re being human. Be vulnerable and don’t be afraid to tell the story of where you came from or where you are. You don’t have to be the biggest to be relevant. You have to be real and you have to make a human connection.

Cell phones have leveled the playing field so it’s no longer who has the gear that will stand out, it’s who has the best story to tell.

Host: Anything else you’d like to touch on before we wrap up today?

Pat Taggart: Just a huge thank you. I love this space. We get to do a lot of work with for-profit companies and nonprofits as well. When we’re working for a nonprofit company, from the moment we walk in the door as a team it just feels a little different. There’s more purpose to the work.

And I love the work we do at nonprofit companies. They are creating purpose for people and jobs — that’s so important. There’s something very special about the nonprofit space. If people only have one takeaway from this conversation it’s this: don’t let self consciousness hold you back. Or the size of your organization or the fact that you only have a phone — you have a story to tell, every organization does. Every second you waste not telling that story you’re doing yourself a disservice and you’re helping fewer people. Your story can allow you to accomplish your mission. You just have to be willing to share it. And if you don’t want to consume it, that’s okay.

Host: Pat, if folks want to find you, in addition to your website, where can they find you online?

Pat Taggart: I’m on LinkedIn a lot, last name is Taggart, T-A-G-G-A-R-T–unlike all of my childhood trophies. Pat Taggart on LinkedIn. And if you want to reach out directly it’s [email protected]

Host: Pat, I really enjoyed today’s conversation.

Pat Taggart: Thanks for having me.