Host: Hey, Trent. How are you?  

Trent: I’m great, Leah. It’s good to be with you again. 

Host:  We last spoke right at the end of 2024. We are now in late March of 2025, and it feels like it’s been six years already.  

Trent: On the one hand, it flies by, and on the other hand, think of all that’s happened since the end of ’24 and how ’25 should be going — my goodness. 

Host: Yes. We recently had one of our webinars that we do every half of the year. We sat down to review Q3 and Q4 of ’24, and it was like looking at something from another century. People’s minds aren’t where they were four or five months ago.  

You and I wanted to sit down and acknowledge the elephant in the room that many nonprofits are staring at: there’s a lot of noise in 2025. Let’s start there.  

Trent: A ton of noise. Part of the reason I was eager to get together and talk about this with you and our audience is that much of the noise at the beginning of this year was about a new administration. That’s politically charged and emotionally charged. But what’s important is to set aside our emotions and recognize that they cause some unsettling feelings. On top of that, we have a lot of other noise related to the economy and other environmental elements that are creating some uncertainty. 

So, I wanted to get together and talk about how, in working with some of our own client sets and talking to other organizations in the space, it feels like there’s this hesitation that’s happening. We must figure out what to do next, but there’s also a lot of uncertainty about what could happen, which is creating this white space.  

This is the time to lean in and not pull back. 

Host: Absolutely. We know uncertainty often creates both challenges and opportunities. Let’s unpack what’s going on. Where do we see the challenges? Then, let’s discuss where some of the opportunities might be. 

Trent: For our audience — if you’re out there, my guess is that you’re feeling this anxiety. Many of you have fiscal years that end June 30, so you’re pretty far along in your planning for fiscal year ’26. Some of you probably have fiscal years that begin on October 1, and then a good number are probably on the calendar year, so you’re in a different phase in planning. But no matter where you are in your planning phase, all these signals are creating anxiety.  

I reflect on being in the market for a long time. I’m dating myself — we’ve been around long enough to see many different administrations and economic cycles. We’ve been — I was going to say lucky, but I don’t know if that’s the right word regarding not necessarily hitting a deep recession again. Many of us listening to this podcast can probably remember the Great Recession, which was 17 or 18 years ago. That was a pretty deep trough.  

There are things we can learn from history. Some organizations stayed steady through the Great Recession. They did smart things with donor acquisition and stewardship, focused on their mission, got through that time with flying colors, and took away market share in their competitive donor landscape. That’s what we want to talk about today. How do you push forward and not pull back on things while you’re waiting? Being bold during this time. 

It’s also important for us to remove our emotions. What’s happening in the environment that’s causing some uncertainty? I saw a headline yesterday that consumer confidence was the lowest it’s been in four years, and we also saw some research that said it was in the fourth month of decline. I didn’t realize that. 

This could be driven by politics, and it doesn’t matter. I’ll pause here because, again, I want to remind our audience that you could say this is Trump’s fault or Biden’s fault or your local council person’s fault — it doesn’t matter whose fault it is. We have to deal with the uncertainty that consumer confidence is down. What does that mean for our donors, supporters, volunteers, other constituents, or even our mission recipients? Our mission recipient audience might grow during this time of lower consumer confidence. 

Also, inflation continues. We’re still around 3%, but tariffs that could impact that are on the horizon. Speaking of tariffs, this is another area of uncertainty. This administration is posturing in many ways — what they say they’re going to do may not necessarily be implemented. Still, it can rattle markets and consumers and affect their behavior, which can increase costs. 

Then there are employment concerns. When we think about the governmental impact on that or the economy in general, expectations are at a 12-year low. Given this combination, how do you feel, Leah, as a consumer? Do you feel uncertain right now? 

Host: Oh, definitely. My husband and I are lucky in that we’re both employed. We’re staying home, eating out less, being conservative with our spending, and not wanting to take big, lavish trips.  

We’re seeing a similar hesitation in the market as well. For many people, philanthropy is seen as a luxury. In times of uncertainty, they tend to pull back. 

Trent: This is where I like to bring up the fact that we still live in the most generous country in the world, and people give through difficult times. We saw statistics about this during the Great Recession, and I apologize that I can’t remember the specifics. Let’s say people had been giving $1,000 a year to eight to 10 organizations. But then, they cut back their giving to $700 or $800 to three or four organizations. These are the people who continued to give on the other side of the economic downturn.  

So, what happened? Three or four organizations got a larger share of a smaller wallet. Think about that. Someone went from giving $1,000 to giving $700, but they were giving the $700 to three or four organizations instead of $1,000 to 10 organizations. They also became more deeply connected to those organizations they stuck with.  

That’s what we continue to preach. How do you become a philanthropic priority for your givers? Because, to your point, people might pull back. But they don’t necessarily pull out altogether, so we must continue to lead through. In the nonprofit space, most donors who support us are middle- to higher-income households, so confidence matters.  

Someone might look at this and say, “Jeez, inflation keeps tracking up, and my raise isn’t keeping up. I feel like I don’t have much money. If I cut back and put the same amount in my 401(k), maybe I shouldn’t give as much to the organizations I support or cut a couple.”  

That’s okay to think through; we think about it as consumers. That’s why I asked you, and I’m in the same boat. I’ve reevaluated my consistency and frequency of giving to organizations over the years, but that’s still an important part of the fabric of the individual I am.  

The bottom line for our listeners is that we’re in a storm right now. I’ve used this internally with my team a lot. Our job is to figure out which way the winds might blow and make sure our organizational clients are putting the sails up and in the right direction so the wind can move us faster. I can’t control the weather, and I can’t control the winds.  

I can complain about them, blame them, and get emotionally fired up. But that’s not going to help much. I have to figure out which way the wind is blowing and then try to lead through that strongly. 

Host: That’s a great segue to our next point: constraint can often inspire creativity. When you’re experiencing uncertainty, there’s a tendency to constrict, pull back, and go back to what feels safe. But those are often the most optimal times to use that crisis and break through into something that may not have been possible before. 

We talk about that in different ways — one is the Breakthrough thinking model. If you were a leader at a nonprofit right now, what advice would you give your team, and what strategies would you adopt? 

Trent: Over the last 15 or 20 years, COVID was another externally or environmentally created crisis that required leaders to look at the brutal facts objectively. I’m a big fan of Good to Great and Jim Collins, and he talks about the brutal facts. You can’t ignore those facts and must adjust your business strategy to what’s happening around you.  

Sometimes, the brutal facts are caused by external factors like those we’re talking about. Sometimes, they’re internal. For instance, nonprofits have faced scandals. The brutal facts might be that we’re in crisis because of this. What are we going to do about it? Good, strong leaders will look at that and ask what we might need to consider. How might we need to show up? 

During COVID is a great example. It’s wild to think about this time five years ago. Talk about uncertainty week to week. It’s been so long now that I’ve forgotten. Was it 10 days to slow the spread? Two weeks to slow the spread? Nonprofits were asking, “Will we be able to do our gala on April 20? Will we be able to do our walk event on May 21?” Nobody knew, and you were literally day to day.  

There was no boogeyman to blame. Right now, there are many boogeymen, whether it’s an administration or an economy that’s bad because of a boogeyman. During COVID, it was like, “Oh, there’s not a boogeyman, so let’s figure out how we, as humanity, can solve this.” And we did. We were very resourceful as nonprofit organizations. People also became quite generous through it. 

Think back to where you were during COVID five years ago. Talk about uncertainty. This is nothing compared to that. I like what you’re saying — to think about what’s possible. If we couldn’t do our event in person, what are some alternatives so we could still raise the money we needed to raise and hit the goals we needed to hit? Could we do some things differently? 

It activated different, objective thinking, which we need to do today. Strong leaders rise above the political environment or whatever else may be going on economically. Complaining doesn’t do us any good. We have to look at it and say, “Our mission must advance through this season of crisis, irrespective.”   

What I love about working with nonprofits is that the leaders are very passionate about their product, which is their cause. Of course, people in the for-profit space are passionate about their products and will persevere. But in the nonprofit space, resilience is a cornerstone of who we are. So, you can’t react to headlines.  

During this time, good leaders should gather their teams together and say, “Hey, I’m hearing a lot of chatter and complaining, and it might not be fair, but it doesn’t matter. The reality is that this is what we’re faced with. This is how it will affect the people we serve. So, let’s think mission-first, and then talk about how it might affect the constituency that supports our mission to ensure we’re still thriving through this time.” 

COVID also taught us that communication with our donors is critically important. They don’t expect you to have the answers, but they do want to be informed. I think back to COVID and the authenticity and the transparency of saying, “We don’t know exactly how this will affect us yet, but we need your help, and here’s what we’re doing.”  

So, those who might be uncertain about grants or the governmental impact on your organization or constituency, it’s okay to say, “Boy, a lot is unfolding, and we’re on top of the impact every day. But our mission holds true through this, and we still need your help. And we appreciate the help you’ve provided in the past.” 

The strongest leaders could be apolitical regarding those aspects. Whether the current administration is left-leaning or right-leaning, there are always ways that those winds will blow that will allow you to amplify your message in a certain way that can create urgency. Capitalize on that, but your commitment to growth for your mission shouldn’t change. 

It’s a good segue to saying lead with purpose, not with fear. Through the recession and COVID, some organizations paused, leaned back, and weren’t communicating effectively. But the other organizations in that competitive landscape kept going and took away some supporters.  

Host: You brought up the idea of trust. One of the biggest challenges we’re dealing with as a society is a fundamental lack of trust in institutions. A lot of conflicting information came out around COVID afterward. There was already a destabilization of trust in institutions. One side effect of that deteriorating trust in institutions was a distrust of nonprofits. 

An additional challenge many nonprofit leaders are grappling with is that people bandy around terms like disinformation or misinformation so quickly nowadays that it’s hard for people to tell up from down. As a nonprofit, when uncertainty arises, it’s equally important to figure out the best way to be authentic with your donors at a time when trust in any organization that can communicate its agenda is at its lowest. 

Trent: You hit some keywords I want to hammer in on: authenticity and vulnerability. As we’ve talked about, I’m a big Brene Brown fan. When leading your organization, vulnerability, communication, and consistency are important. Distrust sometimes comes not just from misinformation.  

Back to COVID, people said, “Oh, that was misinformation.” Sometimes, people communicated with the best information they had at the time, and that changed. That’s okay too, as long as you’re being transparent and consistent with your communication: “Hey, things have changed.”  

For nonprofit organizations, one area that’s being irresponsibly cut or, in some cases, eliminated — which I disagree with — is donor acquisition and stewardship. “I’m going to buckle down. We’re going to cut some budgets. We’re going to go deeper with those who are already passionate about our cause.” It’s important, but it’s a yes-and. When I talk about stewardship, it’s about building trust and integrity. It’s about doing what you said you were going to do.  

I was with a hospital organization not long ago, and they were talking about how they could improve their stewardship. There was a lack of connection between those larger, major, and even transformational gifts to ensure that those donors were effectively communicated with regarding the stewardship of their gift. That’s true at the top of the pyramid and very true down at the bottom of the pyramid. 

If you support a food bank and care about food insecurity, everything we discussed will impact that. Because of the economy, more people might need a food bank’s services, or government policy may impact SNAP benefits. I’ll leave it at that, although it’s much more complex. 

But with that, how can I communicate in a positive way with my supporter or constituent? “Thank you for supporting us in the past. Your help is more important than ever. Here’s what we’re navigating through.” That will change, by the way. And when it does, you can be transparent about that as well. Then, as you talk to prospective new donors, you can say, “You may not have considered supporting this cause, but here’s why it’s more important now than ever.” 

Consistency, transparency, authenticity, vulnerability, integrity — all these things are critically important in your communication with supporters. As I said, this is the theme of the podcast today. It’s more important than ever in times of uncertainty. 

Host: I love that you shared that, Trent. Nonprofits need to remember that people give to people. Featuring the stories of the beneficiaries of your support will almost always build trust if you do it with integrity and care. Do you have any additional thoughts about that? 

Trent: I love that. We always talk about being constituent- or mission-centric as opposed to organization-centric. There are times when the organization is living in a fear-based area: “Here’s why we need your help.” But it’s not, “We need your help.” It’s “The people we’re supporting need your help.”  

I love what you hit on there. How can you tap into these stories about your mission recipients now more than ever? When you’re considering this uncertain environment, the impact of what’s happening economically, politically, and otherwise, or the uncertainty that’s still ahead, how does that impact your mission recipient, and how do you tell a story that exemplifies how your help has made an impact?  

“It’s more important now than ever, and we appreciate your continued partnership with us to fight for this cause. You’re an ambassador for our organization. How can I empower and equip you as a constituent to continue your support?” 

If our organization is more reactive, we’ll lose momentum. But we want to consistently capitalize on our momentum — build on it to overcome this fear-based mentality that we as an organization have and that our constituents might also have. 

Let’s go back to when I asked how you’re feeling through this. If you’re getting authentic messaging for a cause you’ve consistently cared about, you’ll likely say, “Hey, this is still an important priority for me and my family. Even if it’s only a $100 check instead of $150, it’s still an important priority, so let’s go ahead and make that part of our budget.”  

If I’m not hearing from you, or it’s a boo-hoo about the boogeyman, or this is what’s wrong because we didn’t get this grant, or we’re having to cut back and need you to help us — no. It’s about helping your mission. Don’t let your emotions override your mission. Also, the consistency is more important than ever.  

Donors remember how you show up during these times of crisis more than anything else. If they feel like all you’re doing is asking, they’ll begin to tune that out, particularly if they’re struggling with their own uncertainty. Does that make sense, Leah? 

Host: It does, and it speaks to another challenge facing the nonprofit space right now. With so many seismic changes around how some nonprofits receive funding, a lot of organizations suddenly need to go out and acquire new donors — and they needed them yesterday. Some nonprofits have already faced cuts in their programs and staff in response to some of the changes.  

There’s a fear that donors will be inundated with asks suddenly, so some organizations may not go out and ask for that support or communicate well with their existing donor base because they don’t want to be more noise in an already-crowded communication space. What are your thoughts here? 

Trent: That’s a great point. Generally, constituents and supporters can help you at any time in different ways. They can donate, advocate for your cause, volunteer, participate in events, amplify your message — they can do many different things. And to your point, organizations that had relied on government grants may need to focus more on private foundations or individual donors to bridge that gap. Otherwise, they’ll have to reprioritize some of their mission.  

That’s real. If you’re part of an organization like this, that’s a real crisis for you. And to Leah’s point, if your instinct is to go out and find a bunch of new donors to close that gap, donor acquisition is harder than ever. There’s more noise than ever.  

List acquisitions from traditional direct mail are pruning. I don’t have it in front of me, but I saw something saying there’s a double-digit decline in the size of lists from the major list brokers to tap into the usual suspects. So, if your organization wanted to rent a list for traditional mail acquisition, those pools are getting smaller. Why? The typical list donor is a bit more aged, and that age is waning. We’re getting fewer and fewer of these folks because they’re passing away.  

They also have fewer resources to give. As you can imagine, they’ll likely give less in an uncertain economic environment. So, it’s harder to get new donors through traditional methods.  

More broadly, this is a time to think about investing in your brand and perhaps in some integrated media solutions outside of traditional acquisition. I’m not saying it’s dead; it’s a both-and. Open your mind to integrated media solutions, including search, social, etc. At Allegiance Group + Pursuant, we’re finding great success there. We love doing it, but it takes commitment. And this is, again, through uncertainty.  

Now isn’t the time to pause and say, “Let’s wait and see how things shake out, and we’ll see if we can invest in that later.” Now is the time to make sure you’re reprioritizing some of your resources for those areas. Investing in your brand — not just your ask — is critically important. It goes back to stewardship.  

Getting more from your existing donors is more likely than getting a lot of new donors. We talk about coverage ratio. For the number of donors you lose, are you getting as many or more new donors as possible to cover your attrition? That could be becoming more difficult.  

Market research has shown that fewer donors are giving more. So, we’re seeing dollars given to organizations go up, but they’re coming from fewer people. We’ve had this conversation before. I tend to question that a little because it’s harder to get all the donor sources, from donor-advised funds, social media channels, and others. There are probably more anonymous donors than ever, where it used to be pretty easy to source donors.  

I don’t fully buy into the number of donors out there because we’re seeing the dollars going up, which is good. But if that’s the case, you’d still have to say, “I need to get more from my existing base.” Amplifying your brand is more important now than ever in ways that hopefully lead to the gift when you ask. 

Host: I love that you brought up brand because, as a marketing person, that’s my love language. Ask me about a brand, and I’ll start salivating over fonts and colors. Especially when we consider the next generation of donors, brands are something younger people always think about, partly for materialistic reasons. I go to the gym and see that everybody has a certain water bottle or a specific type of leggings or shoes on.  

I see how much younger folks identify brands with morality, and that’s why so many more corporations want to put moral statements out there. Some are starting to pull back on that, but they’ve latched onto this phenomenon where people want to support brands that align with their values and display them in such a way.  

How can a nonprofit shore up trust in its brand to harness people’s desire to associate with organizations that align with and provide evidence for their own moral standing?  

Trent: I love that question. It has evolved because you’re right — the next generation thinks differently. An old-school fundraising tactic might be to rent some lists, put together our control package, and test against it. We might include a premium and get a response rate. The average gift will be important. I’m not saying that’s dead — I’m saying that’s an old-school way of doing it. 

As you said earlier, the newer way is telling great stories. People love to share great human-interest stories. Whether you’re a social media manager with an agency or internally with marketing or fundraising, who cares? Hear me out: If you have great stories, tell them in a great way and make sure you’re telling them on social media. Your brand associated with that story will get out there and get amplified.  

I’m of the generation that’s in the middle of social media. I don’t contribute a ton, but I consume more, and I understand that I’m getting some of my information from social media channels. Let’s take Instagram. When I see a great story about a nonprofit that greatly impacted a particular mission recipient, it’s there as an ad, close to my interest, or somebody shared it. So, think about all the ambassadors you have out there.  

If you tell a great story, people share it, and your brand is associated with that great impact story. Then, when you send someone mail, host a local event, or send an ask via email, social media, or an online search campaign, people have had some brand exposure to you and your impact.  

That’s very different than the old-school way of fundraising, where I would send some address labels to get you to open the package. You might read the long-form letter and be compelled to write a $20 check, partially out of guilt to pay for the address labels. I’m not sure if you’re connected to our cause, but now you’re a new donor, so I’m going to put you in my new donor welcome series. As part of this series, you may or may not give a second gift unless I give you another premium.  

And look, premiums are important. I don’t mean to marginalize what I just described. But with next-generation fundraising, you can amplify your brand through good storytelling so that when you ask, people are willing to support you. Your brand is top of mind.   

To use a consumer example, sometimes people buy because they’ve been conditioned over time to say, “This is something I need. I might have wanted it, now I need it.” I’m 56 years old, and I get ads on Instagram about aging creams or this or that. Maybe I need that and should click through, but that conditioning took place over time, talking about health, whether it’s supplements, working out, skin care, whatever it might be. They’re conditioning that. So, what can we as nonprofits do? How can we take a cue from that? 

It’s the same way with storytelling. People love human interest stories, and let’s face it: we don’t see enough of them on the news anymore. Everything’s clickbait about the terrible things happening, as opposed to watching our nightly local news, which always had the heartwarming story at the end of the newscast. We don’t see as much of that anymore. 

So, that’s my marketing advice. As a brand marketer yourself, you can appreciate that your mission doesn’t pause. Just because we’re going through a spirit of uncertainty, now is the time for you to amplify the stories of your impact up-funnel.  

Host: That’s a great segue to innovation. One thing I see being successful with brands — and it’s basic — is having merchandise. That can be powerful, especially for helping spread the word with younger donors if you can come up with a cool design or slogan.  

Trent: Let’s think about that for a minute. I love it because it’s a call to action. It’s a revenue generator. It may not be the margins you’re otherwise looking for from a donation, but younger generations love what you call “merch.” I love that. 

If somebody says, “Hey, I haven’t given a donation yet, but I love what they’re doing, and I’d be proud to wear a t-shirt.” What happens? You’re getting a financial transaction. You’re getting a CRM note that somebody is now connected to your mission. Even if it wasn’t by donation, it was by purchase. You have an ambassador walking around their community, wearing your brand or talking point. It’s like the old yellow wristbands from Livestrong — they’re conversation starters. It was a dollar donation for a wristband that people could wear around, talk about, and show their support for cancer survivors.  

To that point, it’s innovation in the margins, if you will. Testing little things and saying, “How much am I really going to make on that?” Anything you start to test won’t likely live up to the investment you’re making in your major gift programs out of the gate. But your major gift programs didn’t start overnight, and those people giving major gifts didn’t come overnight, either.  

Innovating in the margins and doing iterative things are important right now. I like your thinking because what will happen to that person who buys the merchandise? What permission does that give us? It allows us to continue having a conversation: “Thank you for buying our t-shirt.” “Oh, there’s a sale. Would you like to buy another or one for your friends?” “Hey, did you know you could support our organization in other ways?” “Have you thought about volunteering?” “Perhaps you’d consider donating?” “Or maybe you could participate in an event, become a captain, and help us raise thousands of dollars from your friends and families.” Wow. That’s an innovative way to create next-generation ambassadors.  

Think small. Iterate. Don’t try to do too much. Evolve iteratively through times of uncertainty. We can’t afford to break the bank on it. It’s our responsibility to be budget-conscious. What’s not responsible is to hunker down and not think in possibility or try to test and iterate. 

Host: Absolutely. Many nonprofits are probably thinking about how they can diversify their revenue so that, when future uncertainty comes around, they’re not left holding the bag when something unexpected happens.  

Trent: Correct. Diversified revenue sources are critical. Right now, some nonprofits are looking and saying, “Oh my goodness, we have been dependent on one particular revenue source.” Again, go back to what we talked about: thinking in possibility. If that’s your crisis, what does your nonprofit look like in the evolving two, five, and 10 years? How will your organization look with a healthy, diversified revenue source in 10 years, and how do you work backward from that? What does breakthrough look like?  

When I say diversified, it doesn’t have to be equally balanced. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll say, “Government grants were 85% of my revenue, and individual giving was only 15%. We can’t ever be in this spot again. We must have 85% from individual giving and 15% from government grants.” That’s probably not practical either. 

You likely won’t be an expert in all things regarding all your revenue sources. But when we consider merchandise, corporate, government grants, private foundations, individual giving — there’s a balance in all that, and many organizations have people responsible for that.  

Events have changed significantly. Many of the larger health and human services organizations, disease and disorder, peer-to-peer organizations, and multi-affiliate health organizations were raising 30%, 40%, or 50% of their money through peer-to-peer events a decade ago. Now, they’re not as much. Why? 

There’s a distribution of people’s time, effort, and energy, and there’s much more competition in the event space. They’ve had to reinvent some new events. I’ve seen some good stuff out there. The other day, I saw something interesting from the Leukemia Lymphoma Foundation related to its youth ambassadors raising a lot of money and getting a lot of attention on social media. It’s smart because they’re getting social media exposure and doing some nice things.  

To your point, it’s not a matter of doubling down on what you’ve done so well over the years. Do that well and stick to the principles we’ve talked about. But where can you keep your momentum and still iterate and innovate on the fringes?  

Host: What are some closing thoughts for nonprofits looking for a few concrete things they can take away and put into practice tomorrow?  

Trent: We’ll go back to what we said. Fear should not create pause. Momentum is everything. The mission that you’re amplifying, that you work for, that you’re supporting, is still more important than ever, and your work is critically vital. We’re in a season. And, again, there’s far too much energy being wasted right now, either blaming or trying to solve for it at the macro level. 

All we can control and influence is what we’re doing in our day-to-day momentum. Let’s worry less about scrolling on X and determining whether the things we’re reading about are good or bad, who’s to blame, or reposting our personal emotions. Instead, let’s focus and say, “What can I control today with my constituency and my mission to continue to navigate through this storm?”  

Regardless of the political landscape or global geopolitics, there are always cycles, and we’re in a cycle of uncertainty right now. This uncertainty, which is being driven by the things we talked about, requires us to lead more strongly than ever. Impact depends on what you’re doing, not waiting for. So, my advice to the leadership listening to the podcast today is to galvanize your team a little and come to your board with some vision and confidence.  

Your board wants to know that you’re the right captain for this ship in these turbulent times and that you’ll stick true to what works. You’re going to do more of these things, test in some other areas, be responsible with your budget, and be vigilant so you can pivot if and when necessary, because we live in a time that’s very reactionary.  

We’re recording this in March. The stock market’s been wild this month. I would guess that March will end up pretty flat from February, but what a roller coaster it was. There were days or weeks when it was like, “Oh my gosh, your 401(k) is crashing. Life is coming to an end. What are you going to do?” You buckled up. And the next week, something political changes or a new job report comes out, and it catches back up.  

Stay the course. It’s time to be bold, visible, and consistent. Integrity, authenticity, transparency — do all the things we discussed consistently, and you’ll succeed through this. You might be better than ever because some organizations will pause, and you’ll pass them during this race. You’ll be strong on the other side. We saw it coming out of COVID and the Great Recession. 

Host: I couldn’t agree more, Trent. Our true character is revealed in times of crisis. Nonprofits that stay the course and look to innovate will emerge even stronger after some of this uncertainty has settled, and we’ll see who those strong brands are on the other end.    

Trent: To the listeners we work with, we’re always proud to partner with you. If you’re looking for a partner to help you grow through these uncertain times, we’d love to talk. We love solving problems. Just as you have leaders in your organization who are passionate about their causes, Allegiance Group + Pursuant has 200+ professionals who are passionate about solving problems for the nonprofit space. We’d love to have a conversation with you. 

It’s an interesting time. As you said, Leah, we should embrace these challenges, and some nonprofit organizations will end up much stronger on the other side. 

Thanks, Leah. It’s always fun to talk with you. I appreciate the opportunity.