Host: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of the Go Beyond Fundraising podcast. Today, we’re talking all about SEO and content on your website and why a better strategy for making sure you show up for those keywords you want to rank for on Google and Bing and other search engines may be to update content you already have versus generating brand new content.
Joining me today to talk about this crucial topic in 2024 are my colleagues TJ Peeler and Meredith Berents. TJ and Meredith, welcome.
Meredith Berents: Thank you.
TJ Peeler: Thanks, Leah.
Host: I’m so glad to have you. TJ, I’d love to start with you. Could you share a little about yourself with our listeners today?
TJ Peeler: Thanks, Leah. I’m TJ Peeler. I’m the Director of User Experience at Allegiance Group + Pursuant. I’m also a content strategist, and I’ve been working on websites and in the digital space for about 15 years.
Host: Thank you. I’m excited to dive into this topic with you today because, as somebody who works in marketing, I think about our website just about every day.
And Meredith, I had the pleasure of meeting you recently as we were having a conversation about the website. Would you please share a bit about yourself with our listeners?
Meredith Berents: Sure. I’m a Digital and SEO Analyst here at Allegiance Group + Pursuant. I’ve spent over seven years focusing on SEO strategy and digital marketing.
Host: Thank you both for taking the time to sit down and speak with me today. A few years ago, TJ, you wrote a rich article about data-driven content strategy, where you broke down how to use SEO data — that’s search engine optimization, in case some people are unfamiliar with the term — to improve existing content on your website. That article was written about three years ago, and we’ve seen an explosion in the ability to create content over the last couple of years since then with the help of artificial intelligence (AI). And it’s making some pretty rapid changes to the SEO landscape.
I’d love to revisit the concepts you first outlined in 2021 and explore how they’ve evolved in the context of today’s SEO best practices, particularly around updating content that’s already on your website. I’d also love to dive into how you approach SEO in general and how that work has changed over the last 15 years.
TJ, I’ll start with you. In this article, you shared a helpful diagram for the type of content to create so that your audience’s needs overlap with your business or nonprofit’s goals. Can you expand on that idea and share an example of a nonprofit that would be creating content online?
TJ Peeler: The idea behind that diagram is to spend time thinking about the purpose of the content and the goals and audience for it before you start creating it. As you identified, the diagram shows that effective content is content that achieves a user’s needs — fulfills some needs within your audience — and helps you with your organizational, business, fundraising, or nonprofit goals.
Effective content between those two circles can help you solve a variety of problems. For instance, perhaps nobody can find anything on your website, or you’re creating content that uses the wrong term or gives a different explanation than what your users are looking for. The problem on your website may be that visitors don’t donate, sign up for email, or do some other conversion activity you want them to do.
Again, it’s about looking at the content and pages where you’re trying to persuade people to do things and making sure you have good content on those pages. You need to have good content on those pages before you ask someone to do something.
Sometimes, nonprofits say their visitors don’t know what they do or how they do it. They don’t understand all the nonprofit does — the breadth and depth of what it does. Again, one way to think about effective content is that it’s connective tissue — content connects ideas that can often be further in the weeds than your users or audiences generally think.
The curse of knowledge is a psychological principle. When you work on something day in and day out, you start to assume knowledge or understand things so intuitively that you don’t explain them anymore. That’s very common for experts in all fields. But it makes it even harder to communicate with the public, which doesn’t have that same basis for understanding. You must explain how your mission connects to the different areas or topics you’re discussing.
That was a lot of abstract ideas, so what’s an example of this? We’ve worked with a voting rights nonprofit whose goals were to get people to donate and sign up for email. They also want to get people to join their local chapters so they can advocate for fair and just voting laws.
We want to think about content that connects the issues people care about with voting rights. How do voting rights influence climate change, and how do they influence affordable healthcare or immigration reform? Again, these things might seem obvious, and we may have subject matter experts who say, “Our audience isn’t stupid.”
I don’t think of explaining these things and creative connective tissue content as dumbing down content but as being inclusive and making content accessible for people. For people who already know about voting rights and care deeply about the issue, the organization should create deeper content that connects and explains sub-issues and how they relate to voting rights.
For instance, how does redistricting affect voting rights? What is apportionment, and what does it have to do with redistricting? What is gerrymandering? How do these different issues connect and relate to each other?
We often see nonprofits that have deep content, but they’re siloed. They’ll have an article on gerrymandering, one on apportionment, and one on redistricting, but none of those explain the connection to exactly how they affect voting rights. The fun thing about our job is that we get to learn all about this when we work with these nonprofits on the content strategy. Before working with this nonprofit on its content and SEO strategy, I didn’t understand anything about redistricting.
Host: Thank you so much for that foundation, TJ. I’ve noticed changing behavior around search intent over the last several years. When I first got into the marketing industry, everything was about creating short and sweet blog posts, 300 to 500 words. They weren’t necessarily the most authoritative — it was spray and pray. The shift I’ve seen over the last 10 years or so is that people want to type a query into Google or their search engine of choice and be given the best answer to their question.
Content marketers with SEO goals want to make their websites the most authoritative on a given subject. I love the example you shared of voting rights. We’re recording this in an election year, and we know there are probably several nonprofits out there that want to equip their constituency with information on voting rights, whether for advocacy reasons or to help them plan better when it comes to voting in November. So, a nonprofit with voting rights as one of its goals wants to ensure its website is at the top of the list of the most authoritative sources for information on this topic.
We get to this idea of updating existing content. Instead of simply thinking of new angles to approach people’s core questions, you ensure the content on your website continues to be authoritative on a given topic as the years pass and as information and people’s questions change.
TJ Peeler: Yes. That’s exactly how SEO strategy has changed over the last 10 to 15 years. We’re an agency of marketers and fundraisers. It was a successful strategy 10 or 15 years ago — write three to five blog posts a week and keep them short. People don’t want to read too long.
And now, there’s an explosion of content. There’s so much content on the internet: 8.5 billion searches a day. There were 330 billion emails sent in 2022. There’s just so much content out there that creating the content isn’t the strategy anymore. It’s all about having the best content.
So, what does that mean? How do you make content that ranks the highest in Google? We all know Google has changed its algorithm, so there isn’t a page 2 anymore. There’s only a “load more” button; you still want to be on that first page.
The best content provides a complete answer to a question or a user’s query on a single page. As a result, we see comprehensive or longer pages that are more holistic and perform better in search results. We see this on all websites. The organic SEO traffic enters on deeper pages of the website. They don’t enter on the landing or wayfinding pages with cards — if they enter on the homepage, they’re looking for that brand specifically. Most enter on deeper pages because they offer more holistic, comprehensive content.
Comprehensive content must be chunked so people can quickly scan and find the answers. People still don’t want to read; they want the context — they want more context around a topic. They also want to be able to see and scan the headings and skim through the context.
The best content is comprehensive. It tends to be longer, deeper, and richer. There are a few interesting factors when we think about creating and updating content this way. For one, the last updated date is critically important on web pages because consumers want to know that the content has been updated recently.
They don’t want to have to wade through 20 articles on redistricting to figure out when the last one was updated. They want one article on redistricting that covers all aspects and has been updated recently for credibility and expertise. Both Google and people want your content to be credible and authoritative and have expertise behind it. So, it’s essential to have subject matter experts write content because it has to be rich. You can’t just regurgitate something that’s been on the internet.
Meredith, do you want to talk about how important it is to offer a new viewpoint or something more than your competitors?
Meredith Berents: As TJ said about regurgitating what your competitors are doing, that’s what you get when you use AI to write content. It’s not coming up with new material; it’s taking what’s available and regurgitating it.
Again, having subject matter experts as authors is important to provide new information that will make your content stand out. And as you said, Leah, about how the spray and pray method was so popular and worked for so long, that’s no longer the case. It can be better to update your existing content.
There’s so much content in today’s search landscape that you must ensure your content remains relevant and competitive. When you refresh and optimize content that already has traction, you build on its existing authority. This can be much more effective than starting from scratch with new content, throwing it to the wall, and seeing what sticks.
Refreshing your content can also help you naturally incorporate more keywords and related terms, which enhances your content’s visibility across Google. Search engines increasingly favor longer-form content not because of the word count but because it tends to be more comprehensive and provide a deeper, more thorough exploration. So, by focusing on longer-form content when you update, you ensure your materials cover the essentials and answer questions related to what users might be looking for.
As TJ said, you might have noticed how many sites show when things were last updated. For a while, people tried to trick Google and only changed a few things, including the last updated date. But because Google prioritizes relevant and current content, you need to make substantial updates that will reflect the latest developments in your field.
For example, if you manage a nonprofit website focused on mental health resources, an older blog about anxiety coping strategies might still attract traffic. However, updating it with the latest research, new coping techniques, and recent stats will ensure the content remains accurate and useful.
Host: Are there any situations where creating entirely new content for your website still makes sense?
Meredith Berents: Definitely. If industry trends significantly shift or audience behavior changes, new content can help capture those evolving dynamics. If a particular cause suddenly gains momentum or a nonprofit launches a new initiative or campaign, creating fresh content can help capitalize on the timeliness and urgency. This gives the organization a competitive edge in search rankings and may also boost donor engagement by addressing current interests and concerns directly.
Host: Both of you have talked about content length. Earlier, we talked about how, in the previous iterations of the internet, the recommendation was to write shorter blog posts, 300 to 500 words, and now the recommendation is to write comprehensive articles. Is there an optimal length for a piece of content?
Meredith Berents: It’s not so much about length, although based on research, 2,400 or more words tend to perform best. But that’s not necessarily because of word count — in general, more comprehensive content tends to perform better in terms of SEO and driving traffic to the page than thinner content.
The key isn’t to provide an answer but to add extra value. Offer deeper insights and practical examples or guide the user toward a specific action.
The content should be structured to fully address the question and anticipate other questions from the user while encouraging them to engage further, such as exploring more detailed content, signing up for something, or taking another desired action. Approaching it this way satisfies search intent and encourages users to click through and interact with content, so it’s more effective overall.
Host: I often search for answers on my phone rather than my desktop. I might be in a situation where I want to fact-check something quickly, like when talking with someone or watching a show. I go to Google or a search engine and type in the question. When we consider that more and more people are likely searching for answers in a spur-of-the-moment setting on their mobile devices, it’s critical to ensure your content is formatted in a scannable way so people can get to the answer they want quickly.
TJ Peeler: Yes, the page’s heading structure is essential, and we’ll talk a little about this later. One approach to updating your content with SEO and Google Analytics data that we’ve borrowed and altered is to first think about it as an outline. Think about the heading structure because those headings are wayfinding signposts for people to use as they scan.
Elements and design features like tables of contents are essential. Have a succinct introduction that captures the main points of the article. Don’t leave conclusions to the end of pages; frontload your article and headings with key points to create easily scannable and skimmable content. It’s crucial to help someone find their answer quickly, especially on a cell phone.
Host: So, when we use the word “search intent,” what are we talking about?
Meredith Berents: Sure. Search intent refers to the underlying goal or purpose behind a user’s search query. It’s the “why” behind what they’re searching for. For example, if someone were to search for information on how to diagnose kidney disease, their intent is likely informational. They want to understand the process or symptoms related to diagnosis.
Understanding the intent and the “why” helps us offer the right kind of content. Suppose we know people are searching for information on diagnosing kidney disease. In that case, we can provide content that will thoroughly explain the diagnostic process, symptoms to watch for, and next steps to take. Thinking about your content this way will ensure it ranks well and directly meets the user’s needs.
Analyze current search queries, user behavior, and engagement metrics to identify and cater to evolving user needs as you update content. We also review the “people also ask” and “related search” sections on Google to understand if there are new angles or questions the audience might be interested in.
By aligning your content with the specific intent behind searches, you can significantly enhance engagement and conversions, ensuring your content remains relevant and effective.
Host: TJ, in your original article from a few years ago, you advocated for organizations to take a hard look at their data and use it to shape their content strategy and inform which content they should prioritize updating. Can you expand on that? What does it look like, and what has changed in the last few years since the article was written?
TJ Peeler: It hasn’t really changed, to be honest. I’m still advocating for the same thing: creating content takes time. It takes your staff time. It takes your subject matter expert time. It takes your marketing team’s time to post it, publish it, and push it out. All this uses up your nonprofit’s resources.
We often don’t see the same rigor when measuring content performance on websites as we do with emails. With emails, we measure the success of campaigns over time; we see what engages and converts. It’s a little harder to measure content success on websites because there’s less control inherently. It reflects the marketing that’s happening at the same time; it reflects what’s happening outside in the world.
You don’t just want to look at page views; you also want to look at engagement metrics. Look at voice-of-the-customer qualitative feedback; look at your search data. Google spends billions of dollars, if not more, a year trying to determine what users want. SEO data is valuable because we can leverage the work that Google is doing to understand what people generally want. This works well if your audience is the general public. If you’re not an association or going after a smaller, niche audience, you need to be more careful with SEO data. Still, SEO data can help you understand what people are looking for.
Meredith spoke earlier about using Google Trends to look for variations in what people are looking for — kidney disease vs. kidney disease symptoms or kidney failure symptoms. Google is getting smarter at relating symptoms.
We conduct content audits with our clients to help them identify high-performing content they should improve. One of our philosophies is that you shouldn’t worry about improving your low-performing content — trim and archive it. Leave mid-range content that’s performing in the middle. Let it hang out and check back in a couple of years. High-performing content offers a good opportunity to enhance and update it so it performs even better.
I like to focus on improving high-performing content. Listeners probably think that if creating content takes lots of time and money, why can’t AI create it instead? AI is supposed to solve all our problems and take all our jobs away, right? But AI isn’t there yet. Again, it’s about creating content that provides value or has a unique viewpoint that offers value. That’s what you need to satisfy users and rank in Google.
First of all, there are credibility questions. You need to be an expert to understand if what AI gives you is credible. It takes a fair amount of work to discern that. AI is pulling from a massive body of content, so it won’t help you create something specific that offers something new and fresh on a subject.
Host: When I sit down to prioritize which high-performing pages I want to optimize and update, what are some good metrics to evaluate to identify which pages to focus on?
Meredith Berents: Great question. It’s not just about looking at the basics; we need to make sure we’re digging a little deeper. As TJ said, when doing content audits, we’ll look at a myriad of data — from GA 4 or Search Console. So, if we’re looking at GA 4, we look for specific conversions, engagement data, and how users move through our site. This will help us understand what’s working and where we might need to make changes.
Search Console is probably my favorite tool. It lets us see how our content performs in search, which keywords drive organic traffic, and where we might have opportunities to improve our rankings.
Earlier, we talked about pulling in last-updated data. We also use readability levels in our audits. That’s becoming more important as a measure of inclusivity, especially to nonprofits. Another thing that we use with our audits is readability levels. Ensuring your content is accessible to a broad audience is essential. We typically recommend aiming for a reading level between seventh and eighth grade for individual donor audiences. This level will ensure your content is easily digestible and inclusive, enabling effective communication with a different group of readers.
On the other hand, for content that might be more technical, you can aim for a higher reading level — around 12th grade — to ensure depth and precision for specialized audiences. We use Screaming Frog to measure reading level. Screaming Frog uses the Fleisch Reading Ease Score, but there are other skills like the Gunning Fog Index. Whatever you use that’s similar, the readability will be for typical users.
Host: What approach do you typically take with organizations to update content and create comprehensive pillar content articles that fulfill user intent?
TJ Peeler: Sometimes we do this after the audit, and sometimes we do it as a one-off. If we haven’t done the audit before, we would look at the metrics Meredith mentioned. We also look at keyword research and competitor pages that rank higher than you in Google for the search terms. We have a method that we’ve borrowed and adapted based on Are Halland’s core content method, which we learned from Carrie Hane. We’ve been using it with our clients for a few years now.
When we update content, we work through a worksheet. It starts with identifying the goals and audiences for each page. It’s critical to think about the purpose and audience for the content, not what your nonprofit might want to push out to people. We also consider what people are looking for or want. So, how does what you’re pushing out align?
Again, effective content meets an audience’s needs and organizational goals. If you’re creating content nobody wants, nobody will look at it. We’re trying to avoid that by thinking about our audiences and goals.
Host: We’ve already discussed some of the shifts that have happened over the last several years. We mentioned mobile browsing and faster loading times becoming more important. Are there any technical considerations we should address when updating content for SEO in 2024?
Meredith Berents: One thing TJ and I discussed earlier this week is seeing a shift from keyword optimization to topic optimization. Now, we’re seeing AI overviews. Google something, and you almost get a conversational answer to your question.
Unlike traditional search results or featured snippets that provide specific answers, AI overviews offer a more conversational summary pulled from multiple sources. This means users are getting quick-sized responses directly from these overviews.
Your content needs to be comprehensive enough to address the entire topic. Instead of optimizing for a keyword like “community health programs,” you’d want to cover everything related to that topic — mental health support, free health screenings, preventative care — all within a single, well-rounded piece of content.
This approach caters to user intent by answering their questions, making your content more likely to be cited by AI. Updating your content and linking it to recognized experts is more important than ever. Search engines prioritize content that’s not only current but also trustworthy.
Host: For our audience who may be hesitant to update existing content or unsure where to start, could you provide a final takeaway on the benefits of well-executed content and SEO strategy?
Meredith Berents: Sure. A well-executed content and SEO strategy isn’t just about staying current; it’s about ensuring your website is as relevant and useful as possible. Updating your content improves your chances of ranking higher in search and enhances the user experience. Fresh, accurate information will keep your audience engaged, drive more conversions, and amplify your organization’s impact.
When you think about content updates, I like to start with the user in mind. What are they looking for? How can we give it to them in a comprehensive, easy-to-understand, and user-friendly way? Don’t overwhelm them.
Guide them through your content smoothly, make sure it’s scannable, and make sure they find exactly what they need. That’s not just good; it’s the key to retaining your audience and achieving your organization’s mission.
Host: Well, Meredith, TJ, this has been an incredibly informative and helpful episode. Thank you so much for your time today, and I look forward to having you back on the show in the future.
